Curse

KESKI · Jan 14, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Yes FoW and UW are extras, but so are most arenas to new players or have you forgot that now all arenas except for Random must be unlocked through pvp play?

Um...not realy the same now is it??
A player learning from Watch their own a$$ to watch the other 3 players, learn from fight 1 team to fight 2, and finaly learn that bashing your enemies to death is not the only thing in battle(but very important

)
This is a progress, from RA->TA->HA, a progress in one's team skill(but some people will never learn...just like not everyone in pve know the story

).
Now...is any pve main story locked because of the favor?? Nop, so its not like pve cant progress with out the favor.
How about pve player skills?? well, I doubt it, I been both FOW/UW, and actualy finish all mssions there a few times(guess how long it took to find a team that actualy know all missions

and how many "Leetness" I see). FOW/UW might be something during the age of Tyria, but compare to DOA and the 2 elite in faction....its cake walk

There is no massive foes wave(unless you go aggro them all) no gayish aspect effects. I realy dont see anyone actualy thinking FOW/UW is more challenging and need more team work then DOA or the deep and urgoz, if anyone who can finish DOA but die at FOW/UW, its most likely because they dont know the place..not because its harder.
So I stand still, most people want to go down there simply because they cant all the time, or they want the lure.
But then again, I never see myself "hardcore" in both pvp or pve, so if I miss something, do tell.

Quote:

I play this game to have fun, pvp is not fun for me. Its not that im not good at it, though I have no rank its due to lack of playing. I've earned my Friend of Luxon tittle so I do have some exp at it, though most will argue that HA is nothing like AB.

Telling me to "Go earn favor if you want in!" is pointless. Your asking me to do something I don't like to do in order to have fun playing a game I like to play.

well HA is nothing like AB

But ya, pvp is pvp, AB or HA they are both pvp, just in different ways, so if anyone call you a softball because you dont HA...show them the finger

But that is the point of lure right?? Make people do something, even they have not much intrest in it in first place.
Want to win the 3 million, you need to buy that lottery. How many people want the 3 million?? How many people want to buy a piece of paper with few numbers on it, most likely end up in trash

But just look at how many people is doing it.

Quote:

FoW and UW are fun zones for my and my guild. We've been going into both since before it was restricted to ascended players. But with work and other real life obligations we have a hard time getting into FoW or UW as we cant pick a time to log on and play with any certainty that access will be availible.

I cant judge your "fun"...what is fun is so different for different people....I find cos-play fun, my friends say its waste of money. Some people find acting "LEET" is fun, not going to judge them(its not a crime to have high self-steam)but not going to support the attitude.

aB- · Jan 15, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by KESKI

Um...not realy the same now is it??
A player learning from Watch their own a$$ to watch the other 3 players, learn from fight 1 team to fight 2, and finaly learn that bashing your enemies to death is not the only thing in battle(but very important

)
This is a progress, from RA->TA->HA, a progress in one's team skill(but some people will never learn...just like not everyone in pve know the story

).
Now...is any pve main story locked because of the favor?? Nop, so its not like pve cant progress with out the favor.

I think the main problem is we have different ideas of what "extra" is. Sure, you don't need the FoW/UW in order to have PvE. But on the other hand, you don't need HA to have PvP.

Arcane De Farad · Jan 15, 2007, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baelian Grey

I totally agree. As I type this I am waiting for American favor just so I can go in and buy my FoW armor. Its ridiculous having to wait an entire day just to get into a PvE area that PvP players influence and mostly dont care about.

Of course you have point but it was ridiculous to wait WHOLE MONTH to get the favor so i could buy my first FoW armor... .

Im bored with PVE (again for now), now i play gvg, when i will be bored with gvg probably HA will come again... or maybe i will choose DoA, cause some nerds wanna buy tormented weapons for 2mln gold

)) (joke).

MrTickle · Jan 15, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

It's fine as it is tyvm.

KiyoshiKyokai · Jan 15, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

I like the idea of paying Balthazar Faction to get into FoW. Now we just need some Grenth Faction to get into UW, as well as the other 4 god factions and god realms.

The point of these areas is to tie PvP to PvE, maintaining the aspect of GW that both PvP and PvE are somehow interlinked, even if at a very superficial level. While favor isn't perfect, and it should have a way around for those who want to explore, I think players should get some benefit for holding favor, and not just the 50 gold blessings you can buy in explorable areas.

The Silver Star · Jan 15, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24

This is the only way that links PvE to PvP, so maybe i should make a thread about how we should have no favor system but be r6+ to enter FoW/UW?

Im sure the majority of people are introduced to the game through PvE so they never bother to even really try PvP, the favor system gives them a reason to afterall im sure guild wars was more aimed at being an elite pvp game.

Btw i play PvE and PvP and wanting to enter UW when Europe had favor as much as Taiwan do now was horrible so i went to Tombs.. Afterall its not like people actually play through UW/FoW very often, its jsut for farmers to be honest.

And if you still cry because you dont have favor when you egt home from school move to Euro servers.

Emik · Jan 15, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

I agree with Silver Star.
Want favor? Fight for it...
Don't want to fight? Quit yapping.
It's as simple as that.

Orinn · Jan 15, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiyoshiKyokai

I like the idea of paying Balthazar Faction to get into FoW. Now we just need some Grenth Faction to get into UW, as well as the other 4 god factions and god realms.

The point of these areas is to tie PvP to PvE, maintaining the aspect of GW that both PvP and PvE are somehow interlinked, even if at a very superficial level. While favor isn't perfect, and it should have a way around for those who want to explore, I think players should get some benefit for holding favor, and not just the 50 gold blessings you can buy in explorable areas.

1: Why try to link PvE to PvP at all? Is there a valid reason to do this?

Well, yes. Encouraging PvE players to get into PvP means that players will come back for the new campaigns. More skills and professions opened up means that Pvp players are more dependant on having the newest chapter to remain competitive.

2: Does the Favor system encourage PvE players to PvP?

No. With the rather late addition of "PvP-only" characters into the game, it is no longer necessary to play a PvE character through the game to play in HoH. In other words, they deliberately UNLINKED HoH from normal PvE gameplay.

The original system maintained the link between PvE and PvP characters by forcing PvP characters to play through the PvE game. In this context, favor made sense: the best players, both PvE and PvP, would go on to win favor. Now, however, HoH is almost purely PvP characters, created expressly for PvP.

Solution: remove favor, completely unlinking the PvP and PvE games, or remove the ability to create PvP-only characters, forcing anyone who wants to PvP through the PvE game and strengthening the link between the PvP and PvE games that is supposed to exist.

As it stands, the favor system is half-done. It's a one-way link between PvE and PvP. Either bring back the 2-way street of PvE affecting PvP (by removing PvP-only characters) or break the link entirely by removing favor.

If PvE doesn't affect PvP, then PvP should NOT affect PvE. Simple and direct.

aB- · Jan 15, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

This is the only way that links PvE to PvP, so maybe i should make a thread about how we should have no favor system but be r6+ to enter FoW/UW?

Im sure the majority of people are introduced to the game through PvE so they never bother to even really try PvP, the favor system gives them a reason to afterall im sure guild wars was more aimed at being an elite pvp game.

If they really need a link of PvE to PvP, favor is not the way. Imagine a fairly new player coming from the PvE world going to HA to try out PvP. Their first problem would be getting into a group. Since they don't have rank X, almost no one will take them. The groups that do end up taking them would probably be crushed quickly. I would even say that the favor system probably turns more people away from PvP than it brings.

DarkWasp · Jan 15, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

I've had enough. I have had ENOUGH!

I don't care WHICH side has the favor, either way everyone is going to be selfish. Europe has it now, they want to keep it that way and lock the rest of us out because we used to do that to them. Back when we had it, we didnt mind locking Europe out.

Either way we are building up racism. Everyone hogging the favor to themselves when possible. It isnt about helping our own, and each others countries any more. Its pretty much the selfish act of HoHers hoping to get a crystaline sword and have their name displayed. And worse of all, shove that FREAKING tiger in people's faces!

There is no good in this! Whatever can be done to remove the favor requirements, please do it!

This is a coop game with international districts! I'm tired of all the:

Bill: Ey man!
Bob: What?
Bill: I'm from Europe how do I get into the UW?
Bob: ****ing Euro trash, i'm not going to help you ********** favor hogs.

You cant change everyones attitude towards each other, but you can drain the fuel of the fire!

Get rid of the favor UW/FOW!

Its not just the racism, its the farming too!

PvP and Farming go hand in hand! But us explorers, we suffer! Without the favor, everyone just sits around making a farming build, then in their final hours of the night, run a quickie through the UW and come out with two or three ectos.

Us explorers need all day! We cant be starting at 11 at night! UW and FoW are BIG.

Sure there are cool PvPers, but I found, the most PvPers i've met. They are just, mean, disrepectful types. Or they show in the HoH with a dirty guild name. I dont want these people determining what we do!

After all, most of the respectful PvPers are found in the GvGs.

Sure the Americans and Europeans can fight all day, America wants the favor back, Europe saying we suck and shouldnt have the favor because we had it before.

Maybe its about revenge and racism for them, the PvPers and Farmers. But us little guys who like the RPG side of this, we're getting dumped on!

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?! COME ON!

Just end the war... This is a game, not the government.

Wouldn't it be nice if American's and Europeans could fight along side in the UW, instead of gnaw at each other's throats over it!?

/SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGNED!!!!!!

Tagon · Jan 15, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Muhkuh

but seriously, no1 complained when america/korea had favor all the time...

Yea they did

/Signed

blakecraw · Jan 16, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

I think it is just wrong to make favor a requirement to enter uw/fow, because they are two of the best PvE zones - whether it be to do a quick farm run when there's no time for anything else, or to explore in depth - and even if the favor was split evenly that wouldn't be enough time for any realm.

Aside from removing the favor requirement, the system right now is broken (yes, I'm American, but even if America had favor all the time I would still say the system is broken. I obviously would not mind as much, but I would still be able to see that the system is broken). It seems to me that the only time America has favor is at night, but not everybody can stay up all night just to enjoy uw/fow, and the only time Taiwan has favor is never (except for about 10 minutes just the other day, lol).

As for making the system more fair, without removing it completely (I love the idea of PvP affecting PvE, and the favor of the gods is cool too), I have a few ideas. Please don't flame *holds breath*

1. Split Europe up by country! ...or language district!
-this is the obvious fix in my eyes, as Europe is the only place that gets to band together. Or at least be consistent and combine Korea and Taiwan to make a realm out of Asia.
-I can see that this is not fair, because the US is much larger than any European country, but then why is Taiwan screwed over?
-Yes, I am aware of the EU, but that isn't the same as a country, and the EU doesn't have one soccer team, so why should they have one GW team? I for one wouldn't feel right being in the same "realm" as somebody who doesn't even speak my language.
@ the Europeans who read this, I'm curious, what do you think of being lumped into the same realm as all other Europeans?

2. Make it so that the realm which holds Halls can't enter the tournament.
-yes, yes, this on its own is a horrible idea, but something along these lines, to give the non-holding realms an advantage would help keep one realm from hogging favor.
-possibly allow teams from the realm that currently holds Halls to enter a parallel tournament, one which does not compete for favor, but still has the same rewards as HA (fame, sigils, golds, balthazar faction, xp w/e else you get from HA) so that they can still do HA, but without the favor-hogging.

3. Make it so that teams from different realms fight on every map (no European three-ways in HoH)
-this has the same problems as idea 2, in that it would lead to long long loooong lines for the Europeans, but it would make HA a more even match, so that one realm can't flood it and thus have much better chances of earning favor.

4. Make a GD /favor command already!!

On a side note, how many Americans play on European servers, and vice versa? I've always wondered, as I've met a few Europeans on American servers. And where do you Aussies usually play? because I've met some on American servers, but not that many.

-Blake

I realize my ideas are not perfect, so please keep that in mind when responding

Arcane De Farad · Jan 16, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

2: Does the Favor system encourage PvE players to PvP?

No. With the rather late addition of "PvP-only" characters into the game, it is no longer necessary to play a PvE character through the game to play in HoH. In other words, they deliberately UNLINKED HoH from normal PvE gameplay.

Yes... thats why i started PVP fights. Cause i wanted favor badly.

Navaros · Jan 16, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Not signed. The fees in the OP are way too expensive and would not be adequate for smite runs which require entering UW again frequently after you first enter.

More importantly, there is no need for any complex ideas to fix Favor. Simply remove Favor, end of story.

Orinn · Jan 16, 2007, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcane De Farad

Yes... thats why i started PVP fights. Cause i wanted favor badly.

Fair enough. It was presumptuous of me to say that favor does NOT encourage people to start on PvP: it obviously does in some cases. What the question was supposed to ask is : does it encourage people playing PvE characters to move those characters into PvP? Most people who play PvP will build a specific character to PvP, one that can be deleted and then recreated in minutes. While there may be SOME attachment to those characters, most people don't invest in any single PvP character like they do into a PvE character. (most- there are surely exceptions there again)

When ANet allowed PvP-only characters, they eliminated the need for PvP players to do ANY PvE-related gaming. Yet favor still forces PvE players to either depend on PvP players, or get involved in it themselves. The current favor system may encourage some people to play more PvP, but...

Honestly, it ALSO encourages flamewars, people bashing Americans when they have favor, people bashing Europe because Europe has favor... It's encouraging bad blood within the community itself, creating divisions and a lot of animosity. For that reason ALONE, favor is a bad idea. Who wants to coem to the fansites, and read daily that America sucks because they can't earn favor, Europe sucks because they're all elitist whatever, Korea sucks because they don't have the great HoH teams.. The flaming, the negativity, the anger, and the general bad feelings that build up do not help Guildwars, ANet, or the community in general. The discontent that it creates does far more hamr than good. It's not a friendly competition to improve, the results and rewards are tangible, and a cutthroat mentality has seized far too many posters here.

Favor isn't a way to get people to like PvP: it's a divisive mechanism that really promotes bad feelings about the game and other players/posters. Replacing it with a tangible but NOT exclusive (meaning- cutting everyone else out of something in-game) benefit- such as a reduced cost for FoW/UW, or reduced prices at all shrines, would encourage a more friendly environment, one where players can actually get TOGETHER and enjoy the game in all aspects: PvP and PvE, without having to exclude anyone from the fun.

iCe X · Jan 16, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Buy 2 Set of Accounts with different Terrority

Anyway, i of my friend quited and loan me his account which is Euro based...

Arcane De Farad · Jan 16, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

If you dont try GVG/HA fight you will not know how much fun you can get. PVP is kinda different fun, but there is minus also. If you dont have r3-r4 you can now forgot about finding good PUG. Its always like this "X if looking for experienced team. Show me you rank.... OMG you dont have any rank, go away noob"

Crom The Pale · Jan 16, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Favor is flawed and nothing can be said to justify it remaining as it is.

There are many better ways to tie pvp to pve in order to generate some intrest for those that have not tried both.

A pvp style mission, similar to AB, could work. Having the winning team move on to a new city while the losser gets to battle again, lack of people in the city would result in playing vs a hench team but would still convey the idea of pvp to those new to it.

The reverse is also needed as there is currently 0 resson for any pvp player to pve at all. There should be some means to draw pvp players into pve.

In the end there may be only one viable solution. Complete seperation of pvp and pve into two stand alone games. This would eliminate the problem of favor, it would eliminate the problem of nerfing skills for pvp that harm pve play and would allow a greater flexability in both that could not be done currently with out casusing some imbalance between the two.

boxterduke · Jan 16, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

/not signed.
I'm in North America and I say instead of complaining and making suggestions and execuses to fix the favor system. I say its time for american pvpers to step up and think about builds and stop using the cookie cutter builds they are using.

Thomas.knbk · Jan 16, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTickle

It's fine as it is tyvm.

When you look under your name it says 'location: England'
There is a problem, you just don't see it.
The problem is that access to certain PvE-areas depends on how your region does in PvP. This seems to be fine with everyone because it's been like that from the beginning, but if you think about it it's rediculous. Imagine it the other way around: I know for one that I'd be pretty pissed if I could only play HA/GvG if european farmers killed more aaxte's than the american and korean ones.
'go play another part of the game' or 'go win hoh if you're so pissed about it' are not valid arguments.
Some info on me: I live in Holland (so I always have favor) and I play PvP solely.
I really couldn't care less if America always had favor, but it's not a good thing that someone's experience of the game is so largely influenced by other players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxterduke

/not signed.
I'm in North America and I say instead of complaining and making suggestions and execuses to fix the favor system. I say its time for american pvpers to step up and think about builds and stop using the cookie cutter builds they are using.

OMG IT'S KURT THE BENEMOTH 2.0!!11!1one!!1